Penny Live: An AI Paraplanner for Financial Advisors.

Justin Fitzpatrick: Okay, welcome, everyone. I'll give everybody some time to… Justin Fitzpatrick: Get into the room, of course. Justin Fitzpatrick: Thank you for joining us for this webinar about Income Lab's new feature. Penny. Justin Fitzpatrick: the AI Para Planner, we're gonna be, Justin Fitzpatrick: Getting started in just a few minutes here, but I always like to hear where everybody's calling in from. I'm in Golden, Colorado today, where Justin Fitzpatrick: We were supposed to get You know, half a foot of snow. Justin Fitzpatrick: But it's still rain, thankfully. Justin Fitzpatrick: Since otherwise we'd have lost most of our trees. I think the mountains are getting, you know, maybe 18 inches of snow, so there's still… this might be the best skiing of the year, we'll see. Justin Fitzpatrick: Looks like I got a lot of people from all around the country. Justin Fitzpatrick: Big echo in my voice. Justin Fitzpatrick: I don't know if that's any better. Justin Fitzpatrick: Hey, Derek, are you, are you hearing an echo at all, Derek? Derek Tharp: Nope, now I go on my end. Justin Fitzpatrick: Great. Justin Fitzpatrick: Hopefully that's fixed. Justin Fitzpatrick: Alright. Justin Fitzpatrick: I think it looks like it's the, the stream of people entering the, Justin Fitzpatrick: 82 degrees in Massachusetts, wow. Justin Fitzpatrick: Dallas? I'm gonna be in Dallas tomorrow. Justin Fitzpatrick: Then I'm gonna be in, Minneapolis, the next… the next day for the NAFTA conference. If anybody's there, stop by and say hello. Justin Fitzpatrick: Bend, Oregon, love it there. Justin Fitzpatrick: Excellent. Justin Fitzpatrick: Alright, so, let's get started. Lots to go over today, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: Today we're… we're introducing Penny, a new feature in Income Lab, and I'll start with a little high level, like, what this is all about, where we're going, and then Derek's gonna… Justin Fitzpatrick: Do some demo of some of the different ways to use this in your practice and bring a lot of value, to your clients. Justin Fitzpatrick: So, just… Justin Fitzpatrick: to start out, so what… what is Penny? We're gonna show it to you in a second. Justin Fitzpatrick: Penny is a combination of a few things. One is, it is your place for tactical or last mile planning. So there's always been this, this last mile in Justin Fitzpatrick: financial planning, which is you have a long-term strategic plan, and Income Lab does an amazing job at long-term strategic planning. Justin Fitzpatrick: We help you, give answers to the question, how much can I spend? What would change that? Those are the guardrails. What would a change look like? Justin Fitzpatrick: stress test this for me. Show me what a long-term experience might be living life this way. Help me turn… Justin Fitzpatrick: assets into life. That's what a long-term strategic plan is. Justin Fitzpatrick: How can I do that tax-efficiently? And so on. And for that, you need the long-term view. You need to know what resources the client has when they come online, how they affect everything, right? And we're still super focused on that. But we've always had a lot of requests from people to help Justin Fitzpatrick: turn those plans into actions today. And that's one thing that Penny does. So we'll give you examples of that if you're like, well, what do you mean, right? It's… Justin Fitzpatrick: dialing things in in the moment, right? Maybe your plan says we're going to target Roth conversions. Okay, but given that this year we sold this much stock, and we had this much dividends, and so on, what do we do? So we're gonna talk a lot about those examples. Justin Fitzpatrick: The other thing that Penny does is provides broader practice intelligence. So, a lot of the tactical stuff is gonna be about how do we provide value today to a client, often measurable value. Practice intelligence is a way to find across your whole client set. Justin Fitzpatrick: Clients who could benefit from those ideas, those ways to help them and get value. Justin Fitzpatrick: Like so much, in Income Lab, like our Plan Builder, our Plan Updater, our… Justin Fitzpatrick: AI Zoom scribe, our interviewer, all this stuff, we are augmenting these things with AI, so Penny is not just limited to, you know, whatever our team could come up with to give you. It also provides a kind of AI-augmented experience so that you're not… so that often you can handle Justin Fitzpatrick: Really complex situations that maybe we haven't built a perfect tool for you, to handle yet. Justin Fitzpatrick: This term, AI para-planner, what is that? What are we going for there? We're trying to… Justin Fitzpatrick: basically bring up in your head sort of a… imagine, like, a paralegal, right? Like, this is a way to get work done well and quickly. Justin Fitzpatrick: It's a way to scale your work and your practice, but it's not a replacement for you. It is a… you are still sort of the senior partner, right, in this kind of legal metaphor, so you still have the final word. Justin Fitzpatrick: But you're getting, you know, help in surfacing those, opportunities and in doing some of the work. Justin Fitzpatrick: To, to help provide value to your clients. Justin Fitzpatrick: So this might sound a little bit like you've heard of other kind of AI tools out there. How is Penny different from that? I think you're gonna see Justin Fitzpatrick: AI in Penny is kind of a… it's a support system. It's a system that helps you kind of do some things, but it's not the core. What we are not doing is just putting a chat GPT or Claude prompt in front of you with an Income Lab logo. Justin Fitzpatrick: That would be easy to do. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that exists out there. You know, don't be fooled. That is not what we're… what we're doing here. And AI here is used for interaction and extension of the work. It's not used for the math. Justin Fitzpatrick: So this, we're going to talk more about why that's important. We also built a lot of verification and auditability into Penny, so that you can check its work, even when the AI is helping out, right? Because you don't want, kind of the AI hallucinations that you sometimes see. Justin Fitzpatrick: And knowledge, so Penny is built with deep knowledge about financial planning, tax regulations, all sorts of stuff. You're not basically getting a generic web search. This isn't like throwing something into Google and getting the Gemini search result at the top. This is something much, much more powerful than that. Justin Fitzpatrick: So let's go to the first one of these that Penny is all about. It's about the last mile problem, which is how do we connect plans to actions? Long-term plans to today's actions, right? So the long-term plan is great, we present it to a client, it can lead them to confidence, to the ability to retire, or to Justin Fitzpatrick: Go, you know, maybe they're still in… Justin Fitzpatrick: their working years, to believe that, okay, we're on the right track, but what about today? What are we doing today? How can I provide value to you today? Justin Fitzpatrick: So I'm just gonna give you a few examples of this, and then we'll do some examples in Penny. So maybe your long-term plan is to target the 22% bracket for Roth conversions. Justin Fitzpatrick: That's great, and in the standard Income Lab Tax Lab, it's doing an amazing job helping you see how that helps. But in any long-term plan, you're going to have assumptions. You're gonna have assumptions about turnover, dividend yields, anything, right? And that's totally fine. Justin Fitzpatrick: for 10 years from now, 5 years from now, even next year, frankly. But for this year, if you're trying to figure out, well, what does this 22% bracket thing really look like this year? And maybe I want to compare it to last year's tax return. Justin Fitzpatrick: Right, kind of dialing that in. Justin Fitzpatrick: You need a tactical tool to do that. Justin Fitzpatrick: Maybe you don't have a full plan for a prospect household, but you do have their 2025 tax return. How can you identify some valuable planning opportunities to help show your value without having to first build a big income lab plan for them? Justin Fitzpatrick: Maybe the long-term plan, the income lab plan that you already have says, oh yeah, we got this employer retirement plan. Well, it turns out they come to you and say, oh, there's some company stock in it. Justin Fitzpatrick: And now you are in the moment, needing to help them decide, oh, do we do a full IRA rollover here? Is there an NUA strategy, or a partial NUA strategy that we could do to Justin Fitzpatrick: Optimize things right then. Justin Fitzpatrick: Maybe you have a prospect who's retiring this year at age 65, and they're worried about Medicare IRMA expenses. And again, they're in the office. What… would it be possible to help them avoid IRMA? Can you help them file an IRMA appeal to help them save thousands of dollars this year and next year? Justin Fitzpatrick: So these are just some of the examples, we'll see a bunch more, but… Justin Fitzpatrick: the reason we are built… we built Penny in Income Lab is because we believe this kind of tactical last-mile planning belongs connected to your financial plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: In other words, tactics belongs in your planning software. In the same way that the stove belongs in the kitchen. Justin Fitzpatrick: A stove is great, it does amazing work for you. It is best if it's next to your pots and pans and your, you know, spatulas and plates and near the refrigerator, right? That's just where it belongs. Could it still cook if it were in the garage or in the bathroom? Yeah, but it's not… Justin Fitzpatrick: that's not the place for it. We feel the same about tactical last-mile planning. Justin Fitzpatrick: The reason is, if you do it… if you do tactical planning outside of your long-term plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: it could mean you're making short-term decisions without the long-term perspective, right? So you could… maybe if you're doing tax optimization, you'll end up minimizing taxes this year, but then leading to higher taxes, more than offsetting those next year or five years from now. Justin Fitzpatrick: Furthermore, a lot of this tactical planning is really… it's part… it's just the information that's in the long-term plan. You don't want to have to duplicate that work, put it into new tools, and so on, which, by the way, inevitably means a loss of information, whenever you're doing kind of that, well, let me type in some new stuff over here. Justin Fitzpatrick: So that, I think, is why people have been asking us for so long to add some of this more tactical planning to Income Lab, and it makes sense. Like, the value is very, very clear here. Justin Fitzpatrick: I'll just wrap up the… this part of the presentation with this AI hallucination problem. Anytime somebody hears, oh, there's AI involved, and you'll see where AI is involved and where it is not. Justin Fitzpatrick: We worry about hallucination. Justin Fitzpatrick: What is that? Well, because if you're using Justin Fitzpatrick: LLMs, these models like ChatGPT and so on, because they're probabilistic by nature, when you're doing planning that involves AI at all, you want to protect yourself from, A, bad answers, a situation where asking the same question twice, you get different answers. Justin Fitzpatrick: And you sometimes will even see, like, bad background, bad thinking, right? Made-up sources or concepts. Justin Fitzpatrick: So, again, we've built… where there is AI and penny, we've built it, to… Justin Fitzpatrick: so that it's purpose-built for advisors, so that it is used for extension, not for math. Whenever possible, I'm sure you can find a way to put in a prompt that's so, you know, out there and esoteric that, Justin Fitzpatrick: that you'll be able to get the AI to try to do something. So you always need to verify it, but that's why we added verification and auditability to make sure that where you're using AI, this is not, you know, no one ever said. Justin Fitzpatrick: You know why I really need AI? It's because, you know, calculators are really bad at math. No, calculators are great at math. We got math solved for financial planning. We don't need AI to do the math, but AI is really great for, interaction and extension and kind of helping us scale our efforts. Justin Fitzpatrick: So that's… that's kind of the, the… Justin Fitzpatrick: the mindset we had in building… and building Penny. Justin Fitzpatrick: So, I'm gonna go over to, Justin Fitzpatrick: Penny itself, the way that you get to Penny, right now, if you're logged into Income Lab, the first place you land is your households, and you'll just see this big old button right at the top here. Justin Fitzpatrick: Penny, and it'll launch this feature in a separate tab. The reason is there's so much you can do in Penny. We kind of didn't want you to be distracted by the other stuff in Income Lab, so this gives you kind of a clean sheet of paper. Justin Fitzpatrick: And you have 3 parts of Penny, you have planning and analysis, Which is where you're… Justin Fitzpatrick: you're going to be working on prospects and clients, actually doing, you know, trying to find value for them. You have practice intelligence, which we will spend some time on, but this is where you're looking across your whole client set, everything you have in Income Lab. Justin Fitzpatrick: And this is going to be a new reason that you're going to want to get, you know, prospects in here, maybe use the AI interviewer, things like that, uploading documents through the AI Plan Builder, so you can have as much information as possible and practice intelligence. And then you have a research mode, which is just, you know, you're looking for general financial planning information. Justin Fitzpatrick: And you can see on a lot of these, you have this, you know, this chat prompt, which is. Justin Fitzpatrick: I'm going to be using AI to help you answer questions, but not necessarily to do the math. It'll say, okay, you're trying to do this, let me find a tool to do that for you. Justin Fitzpatrick: If I'm in planning and analysis, I can do several things. One is, if I don't have a household in Income Lab, I can just upload a document. Justin Fitzpatrick: I could upload a tax return, and that'll be the initial information, the sole information I have about that household so far. And we'll show you some of what you can do with just tax return information. Justin Fitzpatrick: Or, I don't need a tax return. If I… Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, pull up this… now, this is my, you know, fake accounts, these aren't real clients, right? So I have… one of them is just called Retired Household. I'm sure yours are not called that, it's probably called… this is John and Mary Smith, I'm sure it's called the Smith Household. So I can just pull that in… Justin Fitzpatrick: and immediately it's pulled in their plan, and now I can do some analysis on it. If I want, I can also add a tax return for the Smith household. Maybe I just got their 2025 tax return. Great, let's throw it in there. Justin Fitzpatrick: the reason I might want to do that, Justin Fitzpatrick: is I have access to all these tactical tools now for… Justin Fitzpatrick: for John and Mary. So, I immediately, I… Justin Fitzpatrick: I have a chance to kind of choose what's my planning focus, what am I working on today. Justin Fitzpatrick: We have taxes, Medicare, and estate planning. Very soon, we're going to have Social Security, retirement, a bunch of different focus areas here, so this is not just taxes, but taxes is often where a lot of your tactical work is… is done. And so, again, you don't… Justin Fitzpatrick: there's two great things about this for tactical tax planning. One is, if all you have is a tax return, you can do the planning. Justin Fitzpatrick: Right, you don't need an income lab plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: Secondly, you don't need the tax return. If you have an income lab plan, you can do all of this work without the tax return. I can pull up a tax planning report for this household. It's… right now, it's set on their, Justin Fitzpatrick: on their household plan, and I can just immediately see for tax year 2026, right, which is this year, a tax return is always going to be historical, but for this year. Justin Fitzpatrick: I can see. Justin Fitzpatrick: what their projected taxes are, I can help them understand why. Justin Fitzpatrick: You know, which brackets they're in. Justin Fitzpatrick: cap gains and qualified dividends, net investment income, I can see, okay, they've got standard deduction, they've got senior bonus, and then I can go down and see. Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, where we're phasing out or approaching certain thresholds, and I'm getting key findings that I'm going to want to look out for. Okay, I'm 6,800 bucks away from triggering Irma Tier 1, right? That's going to be important. Justin Fitzpatrick: And that, I could do for this household without a, Justin Fitzpatrick: without even having a 1040, or if all I had was the 1040, I could do that as well, and I can print most of these tools Justin Fitzpatrick: Have a printable, printable, report as well. Justin Fitzpatrick: So that's kind of some of the basics of how you use, Justin Fitzpatrick: penny for planning and analysis, for, you know, some of the specific use cases, I'm gonna turn it over to… Justin Fitzpatrick: to Derek, and Derek, I don't know if you want me to drive, or if you want to drive yourself. Derek Tharp: Yeah, it might not be bad if you want to drive, just because I was trying to grab some scenarios that I know I wouldn't pull up any client information, and it's a little hard in my environment, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: No, no, no chance of that here, since these are all big people, so… Derek Tharp: But yeah, I mean, I think… do you happen to know of a household that might be a good, Medicare to look at some… or, like. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yeah, actually, I think this, this is a really good one. So if I go over to Medicare and the IRMA Appeal Tool, yep. Derek Tharp: Yeah, so I mean, this… this is one that actually came up for me very recently, where I was meeting with, a client, or a new… there was a prospect, a new client that was onboarding, and they said, you know, well. Derek Tharp: Yeah, they were aware of Irma, they sold a business, you know, then they retired just this past year, and they realized they weren't going to be able to, you know, use that. I was like, wait, hold on, you know, like, you know, I don't know that you're in a position there where we need to do that. And Irma appeals, I know, they're one of those areas that I've always Derek Tharp: I know they exist, I usually have to go do a little bit of research, like, is this one of the things that qualifies, is it not? Derek Tharp: Now obviously selling a business, retiring, that's a pretty straightforward one. Derek Tharp: But, you know, I was able to pull up the tool, plug in the inputs here, and very quickly get an illustration, not only that this person likely would qualify, but a good quantification of kind of what that cost, or the cost savings would be to them, you know, not a trivial number. Derek Tharp: And then also, the tool has, you know, those instructions there down on the bottom telling you, okay, here's exactly what those next steps would be. So for me, what usually would be a, hey, let me dig into that, get back to you, type of thing, was, boom, here's the printout, I'll send you this, you know, and that was something the client said, oh, hey, yeah, can I… can I get a copy of that? Derek Tharp: So that's… that's part of the idea with the tools. Again, this last mile, like, how do we get you from… Derek Tharp: Just kind of understanding, yes, there's some sort of planning opportunity here, but actual information in terms of kind of closing that gap from what you might get from your core income lab plan to the actual implementation step. Derek Tharp: And so… Derek Tharp: definitely will be, you know, a lot of refinement with these tools, and, you know, how do people want to use them? How do we get the most valuable information from these tools? So I think feedback from people on what Derek Tharp: what areas, you know, they would find most useful is going to be something we'll continue to want to have here. But, yeah, I would say, you know, this would be one… Justin, will this one work for the, pre-retirement, Justin Fitzpatrick: I can switch to one, but just to point out a few things to people, like. Justin Fitzpatrick: it will preload. You know, if I know the 2024 MAGI, it'll preload it. If, you know, the estimated Justin Fitzpatrick: 2026 MAGI, I overrode those, because, you know, this is just a fake household, right? But this is one of those, like, it helps to have the stove in the kitchen, right? It knows there are two people. It knows what your MAGI was, if it has access to that information, right? So that's just a small example of where, Justin Fitzpatrick: You know, you're… Justin Fitzpatrick: getting, okay, it's good that it's connected to their plan. And then, so many of these things, they're going to want to walk away with something, and so, just print this out. Justin Fitzpatrick: And, you know, it's properly hedged and so on, but it really gives them, like, step-by-step what to do. I think, Derek, I don't know if it was this or a different, topic, but you said the other day you had a client in Justin Fitzpatrick: because you had access to Penny, I think it was like you had read her mind, like, because it just puts this stuff, like, right at… it's like, whoa, I can't believe you did that so quickly. So that's what we're going for. We want bad experience, for sure. Derek Tharp: Yeah, it was actually precisely the other, other tool here where the, ACA Medicare transition Derek Tharp: Is where I… ran into that one. Justin Fitzpatrick: So, maybe this one, I think, is pre-retirement. Derek Tharp: Looks like 61, 60. Derek Tharp: So, you know, the idea here, again, this is one of those areas where, okay, well, what, you know. Justin Fitzpatrick: Not working for me, hang on. Derek Tharp: When somebody is retiring, What do they need to do? Derek Tharp: you know, healthcare-wise, you know, to make that transition, and it's a pretty confusing landscape for a lot of people to go out and try and navigate, you know, what does that look like? COBRA, ACA, Marketplace, how do these ACA, you know, premium Derek Tharp: subsidies work, how does that all tie in? And that was, again, the instance Justin was talking about there that was very top of mind for my particular client. And maybe if you even show them retiring earlier, I think that'll. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I think that might give you a little more detail. Derek Tharp: So I was able to, you know, again, most of the things in this case, were pre-filled for my client, but, we were able to just pull those up right away, take a look at, okay, you know, for them, what made the most sense? And, especially, Justin, if you scroll down, you know, looking at things like, okay, what is that estimated premium? Derek Tharp: going to be… in this case, it looks like COPRA is actually winning out, in the first 2 years. Derek Tharp: But in my particular client's case, it was going straight to the ACA marketplace, but because they were going to be getting pretty heavy subsidy, there. And then also things around, okay, well, where is that income threshold, right? The $86,560, where they need to keep their MAGI below that level? Derek Tharp: And to be able to qualify there. So just, again, kind of those last mile implementation details. You know, these are details that I don't think make sense to build into an income lab plan. I'm not gonna, you know, probably go in and say, okay, premiums are gonna be this cost this year, this cost this year. Derek Tharp: With such minor variation, that's not going to move the guardrails, it's not going to move the long-term… the needle on the long-term outcomes. Derek Tharp: But it is very practical information to be able to give somebody. So, again, that's what we're really aiming for, is how do we be as Derek Tharp: helpful and practical when it comes to these reports, and this was exactly the report that the client said, hey, can you actually give me a copy of those? And that's one of those things I'm always kind of listening for, because if somebody's actually asking for a copy of something. Derek Tharp: That usually means they… they found it pretty helpful, so just good to… good to stay on top of that. Justin Fitzpatrick: Definitely. Justin Fitzpatrick: I think, let me see, a few others I know are… Really useful, Justin Fitzpatrick: there's an NUA analysis tool, which again, like, some of this stuff, maybe you're an NUA expert, you know, that's awesome, but so often you get things where you're not an expert in something, I'm certainly not an NUA expert, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: and again, in my example from the presentation earlier, well, maybe that just comes up, right? And it's just, it's in your meeting, and instead of saying, well, okay, I'm gonna have to look into that, get back to you, and so on, you can just put in a few pieces of information, and start that conversation going. Justin Fitzpatrick: So, I don't know, maybe I need to, it's not as, not as, big of a… Justin Fitzpatrick: Alright, there we go. There's a little bigger one. Justin Fitzpatrick: And you can immediately say, hey, should we, you know, roll this over? Should we do an NUA strategy? If we're doing an NUA strategy, what is that? Justin Fitzpatrick: Right? So you get a timeline here of, alright, I do a lump sum distribution, I'm gonna pay tax on the cost basis, I'm moving the other plan assets to the IRA, I need to hold for a year, then I'm selling the stock, versus if I do a rollover, I'm going to do the rollover, and then I'm gonna do IRA distributions. Justin Fitzpatrick: key dates on all that, right? References to different internal revenue code things. Like, this is not the stuff that most people at least, have at the, you know, at their fingertips. And in this situation, you can even see, okay, Justin Fitzpatrick: if my… if I'm gonna sell a stock soon and diversify, which is, you know, commonly what people are gonna do, then I've got a great Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, a good amount of savings, but if I were going to hold the stock for a really long time, then, you know, maybe that's… that's not as big of a deal. Same thing with the growth rate. Justin Fitzpatrick: Or, you know, what my time value of money calculation is, so you can even do some sensitivity analysis there. And again. Justin Fitzpatrick: Can do a printout. Justin Fitzpatrick: Just saying, hey, this is what we looked at. Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, this is why we think this might be a good idea, here's… if we did this, here's the timeline, and some, like, you know, this stuff can matter, like, getting it right, so if there's a… an accountant or somebody that you need to be communicating with, you have… you have that stuff, available for you. Justin Fitzpatrick: I think, Derek, there are also these, like. Justin Fitzpatrick: maybe these are more advisor tools? You know, I went over the tax planning report, that one's also super great, but, you know, things like the scenario comparison tool. Justin Fitzpatrick: like, how… how would you often use that? So, here we've got, for example, I can pull in… oh, let me go back to… Justin Fitzpatrick: Maybe a simpler household we had here. Justin Fitzpatrick: So I'm in the retired household. Justin Fitzpatrick: And, yeah, I already moved… I already built in a few things here, but maybe… Justin Fitzpatrick: Talk us through how you might use this. Derek Tharp: And I mean, this is really meant to be where you can get down into the real nitty-gritty details when it comes to, you know, looking line by line on a tax return, and really, again, that, you know, this is the type of things in the past where a question comes up, and especially Roth conversions or something, I would… Derek Tharp: go over, use a different software tool. I would fill this out, try and get it to match, you know, what I know about the client's situation as much as I can. I mean, one interesting Derek Tharp: workflow that I've kind of had to shift from. Again, having the… having the tool where you use it, I think this is another testament to that, but… Derek Tharp: a lot of times I'd work from a past tax return, so maybe I would grab, you know, if we're looking at a 2026 Roth conversion, I might pull a 2025 tax return. I'd start from there, but then I would change all the things that I know have changed for 2026. Derek Tharp: Well, now if my income lab plan is up to date. Derek Tharp: actually can start pretty much from the 2026 return, you know, Social Security income, if that's different, you know, those types of things are all going to be already baked into it. Derek Tharp: Now, sometimes I do still like to look at the old tax return, just because maybe there's going to be things that aren't captured in Income Lab that are there. So it depends on the circumstance which one I'm going to build from, but this would be the type of place I go in and really build out a detailed projection, or to say, okay, we're gonna… Derek Tharp: increase income here, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have special… a particular amount of capital gains that we're having this year. We're gonna sell a property, and that's gonna generate this, or there's gonna be this much business income. Like, this is where you really get into that more specific… so, for me, a lot of the end-of-year Roth conversion planning, things like that, just double checking, like, hey, are we… Derek Tharp: I'm going to have any unintended consequences here around phasing somebody out of a credit, or some sort of deduction, or something that… Derek Tharp: again, the income lab engine is telling us that long-term strategy, but just that more tactical year-to-year sort of implementation is where I go for this, and there's Derek Tharp: A lot of capabilities here, so if you, you know, go in and, you know, maybe even Derek Tharp: one of the more complex, yeah, like, you know, W-2 wages, right? So if you need to go in here, you need more detail in terms of how you need to build that out, for somebody to match their specific scenario. Derek Tharp: you have a lot more, ability to dive down into some of those areas. We also have, if you want to go to the, kind of notes Derek Tharp: Or calculated field entry. So, again, if it's something where you've done a calculation, you've taken several different things, you just want to sum those up. Derek Tharp: and you need to, you know, if ever in the future you realize, hey, okay, you know, I want to save one of these numbers, but I want to change the other one, you can just go in there, change one of those, and remember how you got there, because that's another Derek Tharp: common thing that I think comes up is you… you build something out like this, you know, a quarter ago, or, you know, earlier in the year, and then you're coming back to it, just trying to get back up to speed. Derek Tharp: That can be helpful there. So, you know, this to me is really… Derek Tharp: Where we think advisors can go to get that more detailed Derek Tharp: tax projection for a client. And then I'd say the other important thing to note here is that this tool itself, when we talk about penny, you know, providing some of the AI insights, you know, this is just a calculator, right? So we're… if you're changing something in here, in these fields. Derek Tharp: This isn't an AI tool, this is just a calculator. You can look down at the bottom of the screen there, where it's showing you the totals that are, you know, calculated. Again, those are going to Derek Tharp: just be updated as you update them. So, that's, not a AI capability where you have to worry about, oh, is it gonna hallucinate a value, or all of a sudden something's changing. This is really meant to be a true calculator. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yeah, so this is… and if you want to see, also, you want to verify these calculations, you can do that. Just click verify here. Usually takes about a minute, but what that'll do is not only check Justin Fitzpatrick: the math done here. But it'll actually go out to… there's a, Justin Fitzpatrick: there's a calculator at the, Congressional Budget Office, uses. Justin Fitzpatrick: And actually, it's kind of funny because it's not actually as good as ours. It has a few things that are missing currently. It still doesn't handle the senior bonus, things like that. But it'll check line item by line item and let you know where there's any differences, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: Again, we really want people to be able to have confidence in this, and know where there are differences, right? Like, that's a particular case where maybe some software you use, maybe it doesn't have the OBA stuff in there yet, just like the Congressional Budget Office model doesn't, right? Okay, that's a… that's an important thing to know about. Justin Fitzpatrick: The other thing I did, I've actually already uploaded their. Justin Fitzpatrick: 2025 Form 1040. Again, I just had to fake it. It's not a real client. But… Justin Fitzpatrick: One thing I could do is, you know, I've messed with it now and added a bunch of stuff, but I would have been able to, Justin Fitzpatrick: see, okay, well, let's look at the difference between their… Justin Fitzpatrick: What I know happened in 25, and the baseline plan, which is, you know, my income lab plan for them. I mean, you can even see just their ages are a little different, right? Justin Fitzpatrick: I can also step it forward and say, well, if 26 were exactly the same as 25, let's just move it forward one year, and all that's gonna do is apply different thresholds and things like that. Justin Fitzpatrick: Another thing… now, I had them… apparently they're already in… Justin Fitzpatrick: in Florida, but imagine they were in Connecticut, and I wanted to say… I'm gonna actually delete this just to clean things up for us. Justin Fitzpatrick: And I'm gonna just pull in… Justin Fitzpatrick: The same thing, I'm comparing it to the household plan, and I'm gonna… got them in Florida here, and you just say, okay, moving to Florida is gonna save you $10,000 in taxes, right? So, lots of different, you know, and you can have a bunch of these scenarios next to each other. They're saved for you, so you can come back. Justin Fitzpatrick: So I agree with Derek, you know, keeping little notes in here and things like that will remind you. And you can actually, you know, maybe I want to Justin Fitzpatrick: You know, compare this one against… Justin Fitzpatrick: Here, we'll exchange this to move to Florida. Justin Fitzpatrick: So now we've got… Justin Fitzpatrick: I'm comparing this one to move to Florida, so it's gonna be exactly the same, because I haven't changed anything yet. But here I'm gonna say, well, I'm moving to Florida, and I'm just gonna, you know. Justin Fitzpatrick: have a little side gig. Okay, so I give some of that back, right? So, lots of stuff you can do in the scenario comparison tool to just dial things in if you're having a discussion with a client about, well, how would this affect me? Justin Fitzpatrick: You can do all that. Derek Tharp: Yeah, and Justin, I think this might be a good place, if you want to go back to the scenario comparison, too, to illustrate the. Justin Fitzpatrick: Should've saved it. Derek Tharp: Ask Penny capabilities from the site, so if you… Derek Tharp: And again, I've seen… I'm trying to kind of scan some of the questions that… as they're coming in, and, you know, one thing to… Derek Tharp: emphasize here is anytime you go into Ask Penny, you start engaging with the AI, you start interacting with the AI, there's things we've done to try and guard against hallucinations, to try and guard against the AI itself ever trying to do math. Derek Tharp: But realize that these are not… Derek Tharp: flawless thing, right? They're, they are inherently random, so I know I saw one question about, like, if you ask the same thing twice, could you get two different answers? And unfortunately, with LLMs, that's just… Derek Tharp: how it works, in terms of, you're never guaranteed to get the exact same answer if you were to ask the same thing even twice. So you could get slightly different, but there are, again, the safeguards we've built in around Derek Tharp: Again, which aren't… are not perfect, so, you know, there certainly may be times when, you… you still want to trust that you want to look at this almost skeptically as, like, okay, here's… Derek Tharp: here's some help, you know, kind of like talking to a colleague or somebody else, but not necessarily treating this as 100% truth. But it is looking at things like the actual tax code, when it's trying to provide answers, instead of just going out and grabbing a random blog post or something off the internet and providing that. So it is… Derek Tharp: Does have kind of a knowledge base underneath it that is grounded more in trustworthy, sources. Derek Tharp: And then, I mean, you can see the answer here, right? This is a good place to go and just ask something, you know, more specific about the client's Derek Tharp: plan, or about just how something might even work, in general. This is going to be a good resource for that. Derek Tharp: This can also control the inputs, so, Justin, if you were to type, you know, change there. Derek Tharp: move them to Florida and, you know, change their… trying to think of another thing… add some self-employment income to it, right? That's something that this can actually Derek Tharp: Do for you? Derek Tharp: And actually even gives you the ability to kind of toggle those changes. Derek Tharp: On and off, once it, thinks through that, so… Derek Tharp: Give it a second here to… to do that. Derek Tharp: So now you can see it updated the plan for you. Again, that's a relatively small change, but if you had, like, a big, long list of changes that you want to make, maybe from a note taker or from another tool, that's where putting something like that in there could be nice, because it could kind of quickly update scenario for you. Derek Tharp: And then there's even that little undo toggle there, so you can kind of toggle it on or off, if you decide, okay, actually, I don't… I don't want to make that change. You could apply that, so… Derek Tharp: Just a, another way that you can interact with Penny that, Derek Tharp: Can feed into the numbers that you're seeing there. Justin Fitzpatrick: That's really cool, by the way. I mean, I know I've done that before, but this, like, hey, I'm gonna do it, and then what does that actually change? Justin Fitzpatrick: That's pretty awesome, yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick: And, like, I mean, this is helpful, too. Like, I mean, I know most… all the people on this call obviously have memorized that that's OBBBA section 1003, but for, you know, us mere mortals, understand, oh yeah, how does that thing work again? Justin Fitzpatrick: You know, you really don't need to memorize this stuff. Justin Fitzpatrick: It's pretty awesome. Justin Fitzpatrick: I know there's a couple other tools that are just kind of basics that you use. So, we talked about kind of the tactical, like, providing value right now to the client. Justin Fitzpatrick: And there's a whole bunch of other ones in here, I mean, we can go over more of them today, but, Justin Fitzpatrick: and maybe we will. But the other stuff that's a little bit more advisor-oriented, we just did the scenario comparison tool. The Marginal Rate Explorer is another one that I think, you know, if you're really dialing in Roth conversions, or trying to understand, maybe they come to you and say. Justin Fitzpatrick: I need $10,000, you know, should I take that from my IRA? Should I… Maybe we want to do… Justin Fitzpatrick: high basis stock in a taxable account, like, what are we looking at? Just to understand where they stand in the… Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, wild world of marginal rates, understanding, okay, these folks at their current AGI, they're kind of in this range where Justin Fitzpatrick: They're phasing out, I think that's probably the senior bonus. I don't remember if they had, like, QBI or something, but… so they're in kind of a phase-out range. Justin Fitzpatrick: Which is adding to their marginal rate, or their tax bracket of 22%. So you can kind of see, okay, up to about, you know, 250, Justin Fitzpatrick: They have this, it's kind of all the same, and then they're gonna hit Justin Fitzpatrick: net investment income tax, which is gonna hit them, right? So, just this ability to explore, you know, and understand. You have a similar version of this for Roth conversion analysis, where, you know, maybe they… maybe you decide, okay, we're… Justin Fitzpatrick: we're okay with, IRMA bracket 1, we want to fill everything up to IRMA bracket 2, you know, what's that Roth conversion going to cost me? What's the effective rate of the conversion? You know… Justin Fitzpatrick: what's the breakdown of why it's costing me more, right? As we can see here, we lost the rest of their senior bonus, and we saw that we're adding some net investment income tax, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: This stuff is, you know, this is definitely more like jet engine, heads-up display, type… Justin Fitzpatrick: Look and feel, but it's like, if you're looking yourself to dive in, and there may be clients who can handle this as well, these are really good tools to dive in there. Derek Tharp: Yeah, and if you want to go back to the marginal rate explorer, Justin, I think, again, I… Derek Tharp: I like this visualization even, you know, it's maybe a little too much for most… most clients, but even just to express how complicated, you know, taxes truly are when we're talking about, you know, especially when you get into the Derek Tharp: social security tax torpedo, and those sorts of effects, where it's, like, some very unintuitive stuff can be happening at the marginal tax rate level. Derek Tharp: So just having a good sense of, okay, what's happening. This is another one, too, where, you know, if you have questions about it, asking Penny is a pretty good way to engage with it and say, you know, hey, what is that, you know, I see this little bump somewhere, or I see, you know, something might just be in the other phase-outs category, like, what is that? Derek Tharp: Those can be good ways to engage with the tool. Derek Tharp: And kind of learn, you know, what's… what's going on there. So, really just meant to be quickly surfacing that useful information. Now, this… Derek Tharp: again, when you think about Roth conversion planning big picture, right, this doesn't replace the long-term projections that we do in Income Lab, and those are still where I start with a client when it comes to, okay, what is that right long-term fit? Derek Tharp: But then when we get to the, you know, actual implementation, year to year. Derek Tharp: now I've got everything built into the Income Lab plan, I can just come over to Penny. Whether I have a past tax return or I'm just using their Income Lab plan, we can dial it in from there, and we can, you know, start doing these projections and take a look at how the different… where those different, points are that their tax rates would be jumping on them might be at. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yep, and you can, kind of like in the scenario analysis tool, you can also pull up, okay, I just switched it to, I'm looking at their 2025 tax return now. Justin Fitzpatrick: But I can just move that up to 26, I can start making changes here, I can throw in some W-2 wages, and it'll just, on the fly, change. So… Justin Fitzpatrick: look for these little inputs and ask Penny. Justin Fitzpatrick: side panels through the app, and you're really… it's that instant, you know, tactical planning. And again, I can't stress this enough, when you are looking at this kind of stuff, this math is not done by AI. This is not AI math. Justin Fitzpatrick: The AI is here so you can ask questions, so you can kind of interact and dive in deeper. It's a… we're trying to use AI where it's really the most convenient way to do it. Justin Fitzpatrick: But use real math, deterministic math, where that would be crazy. Nobody wants an AI-produced marginal rate graph. That's just… Justin Fitzpatrick: not… there's no reason, no one ever said, oh, we really need AI for that, right? So we're trying to give you the best of both worlds, where it's deterministic, non-hallucination math. Justin Fitzpatrick: but then you have an AI there to help you, like Derek said. Okay, I get it, it says other phase-outs, and the reason it says that is listing 20 different kinds of phase-outs would just be too many colors here. Okay, what is that? Why is that, you know, explaining things to yourself? And it'll not only know the tax code, but also what's specific about this family. Justin Fitzpatrick: Right, so it's not just… it's not like doing a Google search. It's… it's actually taking the context of the income lab plan, or in this case, I have it set to the tax return, but I can switch it back to the income lab plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: And you're getting that, kind of, best of both worlds thing. So, and that's true throughout. So, tax planning reports, scenario comparison, marginal rate explorer, Roth conversions, any of these tools are Justin Fitzpatrick: not gonna have hallucinations, but they have AI there to answer questions for you that has the context of the overall plan, right? The kitchen… the stove is in the kitchen here. Justin Fitzpatrick: Alright, I guess we have a little time to just knock out a few other things. We probably don't have time to hit, you know, every single tool. I would encourage you to take a look at them. I found this really helpful. Justin Fitzpatrick: the estate planning, and again, we're adding more and more tools here, but, you know, ever since the SECURE Act, the Justin Fitzpatrick: The beneficiary classification is just crazy, and so, you know. Justin Fitzpatrick: Kind of figuring out, okay, what are my options, given, you know, given the… Justin Fitzpatrick: Given who's inheriting, I'm gonna change this stuff, even though Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, it defaulted to some of the people from the plan. But let's say, really, this is inherited by the child of somebody. Okay, great. Justin Fitzpatrick: Mary's an eligible benefici… designated beneficiary. What are my next steps if I choose to go with this life acceptancy stretch? What are my, Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, when do things start, right? Okay, they start the year after the death, you know, in this case, I get to do it… Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, using Table 1, and I'm not limited to 10 years. If it were limited to 10 years, then I'd see that. You know, it's gonna show me the first 10, 15 years of the RMD schedule, like, it's just this really helpful… and then I can, as always. Justin Fitzpatrick: Print my report. Justin Fitzpatrick: Right? To help them out. Justin Fitzpatrick: So lots of, lots of little things like that. Justin Fitzpatrick: And we'll do… we'll probably do a lot more videos and maybe some webinars on, like, how to use each of these tools. Justin Fitzpatrick: But the last thing I want to bring up before we hit some of the questions is… oh, and by the way, when you change your planning focus, you're also going to see some really quick Justin Fitzpatrick: information related to that focus. So, for estate planning, okay, Florida has no straight transfer tax, good to know, right? It's common law. Instead, you know, it's not a, Justin Fitzpatrick: It's not a, community property state. Like, just that little stuff, that's good to know. For Medicare, I'm gonna see, okay. Justin Fitzpatrick: John, he's already there, so he's… his annual enrollment period opens in October. Mary, her initial enrollment period, is gonna open in January of 28, right? So, just this little stuff that, like. Justin Fitzpatrick: You're not gonna typically have to hand. Justin Fitzpatrick: Is… is super helpful. Derek Tharp: Yeah, maybe on that point, Justin, just to… Derek Tharp: For me, even some of my clients were, okay, I'm in Maine, a lot of my clients are in Maine, I have another chunk of clients in Iowa, and then I might pick up the occasional client that's just out of state, or they move somewhere else out of state. And so, for me, that's been helpful, too, just seeing some of the things of, like, oh, especially on the state. Derek Tharp: side of things, like, oh, I didn't realize that about a particular state. Derek Tharp: So even surfacing certain things that are just good to think about that may not have been top of mind for me, because it's just not the state that I know, as well. Justin Fitzpatrick: Right. And again, none of this is AI. Justin Fitzpatrick: If you do… if there's… we're trying to surface these, like, tools for you, Justin Fitzpatrick: But if you have a question that is, you know, just not really… it's just kind of a one-off thing, you can… this was apparently… I was doing some debugging on this earlier, but you can ask questions, Justin Fitzpatrick: in the chat as well. So, you do have access to always jump back in or start your own Justin Fitzpatrick: Kinda… Justin Fitzpatrick: AI chat. Again, we've done a lot to make sure the AI doesn't do its own math, but, you know, there are questions you can ask, I'm sure, where that's the only option for it. Justin Fitzpatrick: And then the last thing I want to hit is practice intelligence. Now, this is not a very interesting, advisor, because I don't have a lot of fake households in my income lab here, but Justin Fitzpatrick: And you'll see this will be changing quite a bit. We're adding a lot more capabilities here, but it's gonna give you a lot of intelligence about, Justin Fitzpatrick: You know, where… You know, where the assets are, it's gonna give you who's close to a Justin Fitzpatrick: a guardrail, let me see if I have… Justin Fitzpatrick: Here we go. We'll do a guardrail check here. Justin Fitzpatrick: And in fact, once you ask a question here, it'll actually have, you know, upcoming birthdays, RMDs, again. Justin Fitzpatrick: This is not a… supervisor needs to do some business development. Justin Fitzpatrick: But typically, you would have some RMDs, you'd have, people who are close to a guardrail, you've had people getting close to retirement, you'd have birthdays, more… I mean, obviously, everybody's named John here, but you would be able to Justin Fitzpatrick: Really dive in. Justin Fitzpatrick: you could ask, hey, you know, who should I look at doing an IRMA appeal for, right? And it'll look for, okay, well, the people who are 65 and older, maybe where they… we either know that they had an MAGI change, or maybe they did, and their current MAGI is below Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, not certainly below the top threshold, right? So, if you want to find Justin Fitzpatrick: ways to provide that kind of value across your whole client set. That's where we do this. Again, probably should have, Justin Fitzpatrick: built out a much bigger, household, and we certainly didn't want to do it on Derek's, income lab, because then we'd be looking at his clients, but, Justin Fitzpatrick: This is gonna be, a really big advantage, as well. Derek Tharp: Yeah, and just to jump in here, too, I mean, this is where I envision advisors will be able to go here and ask, you know, all sorts of really useful information around, like, you know, maybe they want to know… Derek Tharp: show me all my clients with inherited IRAs in a certain state, or show me all my clients with, you know, that might be some good candidates to do something like the new, you know, the Trump account. Like, if people had been… if they had their children built into the plan as beneficiaries, like that sort of detail where Derek Tharp: suddenly you can get, okay, here's the 5, 10 clients that you should be reaching out to about some particular, issue that, I think particularly as, like, up-to-date tax information comes out, like, those are going to be hot-button things where, okay, there's a certain tax change, or new… Derek Tharp: you know, type of rule, and you can go in there and quickly see who's going to be impacted by that and try and reach out to people. So that's the idea of, you know, the nice thing that Penny is going to have is that whole context of the actual underlying financial plan. Derek Tharp: I'm, you know, a heavy user of, as they've been coming out, all sorts of different AI tools and trying to take advantage of things, and how can I draw, you know, insights from my practice. Derek Tharp: And that's one of the, I'd say, more difficult things for AI to do right now, is to really understand, okay, even if somebody has a whole big Derek Tharp: past, folder of information and statements and things like that. Well. Derek Tharp: Yeah, it doesn't know, like, is that a 401K statement that's in there? Is that an old account? Is that a current account? Did that get rolled over to an IRA? Like… Derek Tharp: just having that, I think of the income lab as kind of the source of truth, where, okay, yeah, you know, maybe somebody did have an old 401K, but now if the plan sees a 401K, or it sees a 457B, or it sees whatever type of plan somebody has. Derek Tharp: We know that's the type of plan that's, actually there, and then we can actually ask questions about it. Justin Fitzpatrick: We got a bunch of questions, probably should have been hitting these along the way, but Justin Fitzpatrick: Alright, most upvoted. Is Penny learning from my interactions? Justin Fitzpatrick: And my client's information. No. That is the big key, I think anywhere in here… Justin Fitzpatrick: It's important to know Justin Fitzpatrick: if you type something into this box, it is not going… we are not, you know, training an LLM based on what you put in here. So we specifically use enterprise-level AI tools that are designed for exactly this purpose. In fact, we were just Justin Fitzpatrick: Revisiting this yesterday and looking at it, and actually, like, the structure we use is quite robust in not saving, Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, not allowing, you know, Claude or Gemini to, to, use that information. Justin Fitzpatrick: So happy to continue. If you have more questions on that, we absolutely can, but that was our biggest security and, kind of Justin Fitzpatrick: Information, you know, privacy, Justin Fitzpatrick: criterion was making sure that that information does not get out. So… and this is all under our, you know, our normal security protocols, which you can have more information about if you contact our folks. Justin Fitzpatrick: Another one, would this replace HelistaPlan? I guess that's probably a question for you, Derek. Derek Tharp: I mean, I feel like it's… depends on how you use the tool. I, for me, know a lot of the, like, having the tax planning within Derek Tharp: Income Lab, where I have the context of my own plan. I am a user of HolistaPlan, but when I can go into the scenario builder, and I can just build a scenario based off of the inputs in my, that I have there, I actually find that Derek Tharp: I've kind of had to retrain myself, but it's actually a little bit more convenient as long as I have an up-to-date plan, as long as that hasn't gotten stale and I don't have incorrect income numbers or other things in there, actually gives me a little bit cleaner starting point to do Roth conversion analysis and things like that, so… Derek Tharp: Everybody smelled it. Derek Tharp: Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick: That was a real eye-opener to me as well. Justin Fitzpatrick: And now, you can use Penny? Justin Fitzpatrick: in exactly the way that you might use holistic plan, so if you don't have Justin Fitzpatrick: anything about, a prospect or client in IncomeLab, you can just start with the tax return, and that's great, if that's what you've got, and then you can just off to the races. But what I did really realize was that whole, like, oh. Justin Fitzpatrick: Tax returns are historical documents. Justin Fitzpatrick: And one year to the next, they might be very similar, or they could be totally different. Justin Fitzpatrick: And so what I really like is you have your income lab plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: And maybe you collect some previous ones, and so you can kind of say, okay, here's how things have changed through the years. Or you, you know, say, well, okay, my… my income lab plan is sort of the opposite of what I wanted my example to be, but maybe my income lab plan assumes I'll have this much interest, but last year I had a totally different amount. Okay, maybe that's… maybe I'm… Justin Fitzpatrick: could dial that in a little bit. So that ability to use both a historical document and your current plan, I think is super powerful. Justin Fitzpatrick: Let's see… is the Medicare ACA analysis using Original Medicare? Justin Fitzpatrick: Is the ACA premium based on the client's location? Justin Fitzpatrick: And the local second-highest silver plan. Justin Fitzpatrick: I don't know, Derek, if you know what Original Medicare is. Derek Tharp: to be, Derek Tharp: might want to tie in that next question to another one, is somebody's asking about average ACA premiums. So yeah, the way… the way Penny works right now. Derek Tharp: It's not down to… you can see there's no zip code entry there anywhere, so it's not down to the zip code type level. So I would treat it more as a… Derek Tharp: Kind of quick, it is based off of average silver plan. Derek Tharp: There, and again, these are tools that we can… Derek Tharp: tweak and adjust if advisors are giving us a lot of feedback of, like, hey, we really need to have more granular details here, or, you know, I want an option to toggle between bronze, silver, gold. Like, whatever ways advisors are finding, you might meet… you might want a little bit more there. I would say Derek Tharp: Provide that feedback, and we're definitely happy to, Derek Tharp: Trying to make these as valuable as we can. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, you're gonna see, like I already mentioned, you'll see some new practice, or we call them planning focuses. Justin Fitzpatrick: coming out soon, Social Security, Retirement, with other tools here. There'll be some ways to help you find these tools as well, so it's not like… you don't have to memorize where we kept the wrenches and where you kept the screwdrivers, like, eventually you'll have just a nice way to Justin Fitzpatrick: ask… ask Penny, you know, okay, I'm looking to do… do… looking to plan for a client who's retiring at 60, how do I get them to 65? Boom, it'll… it'll just put this in front of you and pre-fill it for you, and so on. So, you're gonna see a lot of, kind of, those little tweaks and things coming. Justin Fitzpatrick: Nat is asking, how much does it cost, so… Justin Fitzpatrick: if you're… if you have been an Income Lab subscriber or user for a long time, you're gonna get emails about, Justin Fitzpatrick: upgrading to the pro tier, and what that means for you. You know, new users would choose, if you go to our website, they choose between a core offering, which is all the great stuff we do in Income Lab, how much should I spend? Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, what might change that? Tax lab, all that great stuff, but without some of the more… without penny, without some of the, you know, AI plan building and stuff like that. This stuff is not cheap, so obviously, you know, and it provides a ton of value, so there's a pro tier. Justin Fitzpatrick: As well, but, you know, more than worth it, certainly if you can replace other pieces of your tech stack, definitely. Justin Fitzpatrick: Let's see here… a couple other questions… Are you seeing any, Derek, that you want to… Derek Tharp: I was going to jump down to… because I know there's some about, like, the technical, like, how is it trained, and some… that might be a little bit, too… I mean, one, to be clear there, we don't… Derek Tharp: We have additional context, so, like, information we've given Penny, like the tax code information, that sort of thing, to rely on and instructed that… to rely on it, to rely on that, but actually training a model from a technical standpoint, I mean, that's what Claude and… Derek Tharp: Gemini, like, that's… that's beyond anything that we're doing, internally. I did see a question from Mike, Derek Tharp: around, Penny assisting with multi-generational tax planning, for example, optimizing Roth conversions in an older generation's plan for the benefit of their heirs, based on their heirs' predicted tax rates. Derek Tharp: That's, I think, would be a great use case. We don't currently have that built in, but we do have a beneficiary optimizer that you can do that actually looks at a slightly different question, so it's not saying what's the best Derek Tharp: Roth conversion strategy focused there, but this would be more of a, like, immediate, you know, how would you optimize beneficiaries if somebody were to pass today? Derek Tharp: You know, how would you divide up what's given to Derek Tharp: you know, Roth assets, traditional taxable brokerage account, based on, an heir's current tax rate. So, I think that's something that can be pretty practical, because Derek Tharp: again, an area I don't think a lot of advisors are necessarily getting in that year to year, because that's actually kind of a complicated optimization sort of, you know, problem, and Derek Tharp: It can be different based on the number of people you're looking at, tax rates, and all that, so you'd have to have a pretty robust spreadsheet before to do that, but now we're trying to surface a tool that makes that very easy. Derek Tharp: To be able to go in there and ask that question and say, okay, yeah, here's how we would quickly do kind of a year-to-year optimization of beneficiaries. So, Mike, I think that's a great extension, and definitely an area of interest down the road, but right now you can do that with the beneficiary level, but not necessarily the Roth conversion. Justin Fitzpatrick: Nope. Justin Fitzpatrick: Yeah, we're looking for that kind of feedback on what things would be most useful to you. Again, the concept here is we want to be able to add Justin Fitzpatrick: last mile planning that has real, tangible value. I mean, the Irma Appeal one is just so great, because you're handing them up something that says, and this will save you $9,000 this year, and probably next year, too, because of the, you know, two-year thing. Justin Fitzpatrick: that's… that's amazing, right? I mean, here, you're… I never even really thought about, year-over-year multi-beneficiary optimization, but actually, it's a pretty big deal, and you actually don't necessarily want to do that, looking out 20 years, because, you know, what if you die this year? So this is… and being able to say, look. Justin Fitzpatrick: you know, and maybe you choose your cadence, right? We're not going to do this every month or something, but, you know, if we kind of pay attention to this, maybe we increase your after-tax benefit by, you know, $35,000 here. And you can decide when that's worth doing, right? Justin Fitzpatrick: So that's what this is all about, and then in practice intelligence, surfacing those for you so you know where to pay attention, instead of having to just kind of, like, sit there and think, like, who could I help today, and how? Here are… here's a way to get there. Justin Fitzpatrick: Let's see… if you're not seeing Ask Penny on your households page, I mean, there are a few firms that, don't have Justin Fitzpatrick: access to Penny, because it hasn't been approved yet, so that might be it. Otherwise, if you do a hard reload, it should appear. Maybe you're working with, like, a cached Justin Fitzpatrick: version of the app, Justin Fitzpatrick: In your browser, but usually if you kind of clear your cache or hard reload. Justin Fitzpatrick: You'll see it. Justin Fitzpatrick: Let's see here… wow, we have so many questions, and I guess we're actually… we're already over, so we'll probably do another, Justin Fitzpatrick: another webinar, sometime soon on, on pennies, since we had so many questions, so I apologize for not getting to more of them. Well, we will look through them, and if there are specific questions you have that we could reach out to you on, we will. Otherwise, I know we're planning a whole bunch more training and videos and webinars on these things, so stay tuned for that, and Justin Fitzpatrick: Thank you, everybody. Oh, there'll be an FAQ in the email. Perfect. So, thank you, Derek, and thanks, everybody, for joining us. Have a great day.